Arnhem discussion

They may look a little like dpm
However im appealing to being inclusive here.
If we insist on belgian or wwii denisons we'll find we have probaly about six 'players' for the UK forces, with gliderrider, ed , yth and myself being four of em.

I thin in the same way we said fleckarn = oakleaf we *have* to say brush stroke patterns like portugese = denison.

Guys im a south staffs re-enactor and a former Staffords proffesional soldier, - do you think i *want* my regiment portrayed badly . I would like nothing better than 30 guys doing the Arnhem boys proud with their kit but i thin that seeing as UK airborne is possobly the hardest WWII impression to do well and cheaply we have to be reasonable.

Apologies if this post makes no sense in h emorning its post band practice and post pub

I think the biggest problem here is really that the shape and size of a denison is pretty unique... rather than the camo.

Quite possibly a DPM smock in the same cut wouldn't look 100% crap.

Its a tough one and you're right... we'll have to make it easier...

We should still ban basic DPM though perhaps... or should we? What does a dpm smock with 37 pat webbing over it actually look like?

1. If experience of the last game is anything to go by, while the idea of being able to put together kit cheaply was attractive (and may well have spurred many to investigate the idea of WW2 airsoft further) the reality was that folk got sufficiently involved to put together reasonably pukka kit. Now that certainly surprised me. So if we get too lax on kit this might be a mistake, it could be argued that we get stricter. We have 'Denisons' available from Warren for

Tend to agree with CW , we were lax at the BOtB but everyone rose to the need, I can't recall hoards of flecktarn wearing germans.
I would suggest keep strict, see how the bookings go , and maybe relent later if we don't get the bookings . Bear in mind a lot of the Allies are yanks, we need to keep them involved with the game .
Still reckon no DPM is a must .
Plus if people rush out and buy dennisons they' be yet more keen to use them again at the third, fourth event etc.

This game more than last you need to keep the numbers level otherwise it will be a bit of a nonsense having 20 germans chased by 35 allies.

OK... thats cool... getting a few pics online of us wearing denisons would probably help... and not just Gadge's super accurate, super expensive one!

Okay... thats made my mind up. I need to get mine ordered earlier than orignally planned... heh

Groan - I want to be British now

Allright why not take a gamble here.

Go for a Uk vs German game and limit the places to make it seen exclusive

35 places

15 Uk and 20 german stil gives us a very credible

At the risk of sounding lie aan argumentative git i think the following facotrs have to be taken into consideration.

Arnhem is iconic and people can identify with it easily.

However it tend to cut out the americans, *but* if we do the whole operation of market garden it'll be so diluted as to be unrecognisable and may as well be a generic WWII open day

I say we bit the bullet do a small arnhem game and do it properly, however part of me feels April may be too soon if we're expecting guys to get kit together.

I think we can do it easy or do it right?

Perhaps we delay Arnhem and do 'Italy' 'assaulting the Gustav line' thats aloows for a broad mix of german units as well as uk and americans working in tandem on the same battles, we dont have to tenuously link battles hundreds of miiles apart.

I'm not sure 35 would be economically viable or even that you would get that many Brits - and anyway we aren't really in a position to gamble, sites have to be booked and paid for not to mention the huge effort in game preparation and publicity.

I'm not really bothered what the scenario is as long as it's workable!

So lets do something more credible then?

I think marketting an 'Arnhem' game which doesnt focus on the British efforts at the town is a bit weak personally.

If we have to get numbers we had last time then we need to pull back in the 25+ guys with US kit so why dont we do something US focused?

Why not a SPR type game at PU?

The idea of these events was to encourage more WWII players , not less
35 is piss poor for numbers not knowing the site it's hard to say , but it got to be at least as big as the Bulge.

Real test is set the kit rules, open the booking thread and see what happens.

we want this to build on the success of the first game ideally .

PS CW I've already got the Brit para kit and gun , and you look sooooo good in your SS gear - no new load out for you mein Herr !!

I have played at PU with 12 players and it was fantastic (before it was opened to the public) but then I like huge spaces with few players!

PU can take 100 comfortably, 120 at a push although logistically it might not be to much fun to organise... 60 to 70 would be fine.

Gadge - I'm thick, what is SPR?

Guy - only kidding, my wife has been very tolerant so far... and the flak I get off my 16yr old daughter 'Dad!! What do want ANOTHER uniform for?!!!' (sighs, no point me retailiating with 'Well, what do YOU want with another pair of shoes then?')

If we DO go for an alternative scenario in April could we put emphasis on the Brits, with the idea of building more players with Brit kit during the year so that a Brit/German game later in the year is more viable?

more Brits = more excuses for Yith to blow whistles & brew tea

Kidding aside, if we could encourage more Brits that would be good , esp if we can encourage more Germans too !

All cool guys i dont want to seem a grouch, i just want to ask *why* we are doing arnhem unless we give it real relevance, Battle of the bulge event had relevance and the scope was big but feasable.

SPR = saving private ryan Dave

I think 'arnhem' is such distinctive battle and everyone knows it - tha makes it a strong battle to market, cant fault it on that one, but i'm just playing devils advocate as to whether we want to shoot our bolt on this one when we could wait and do it later after we do a more 'brits & yanks' with more emphasis on the brits as a build up, get guys buying battle dress first.. denisons later...

I really not trying to be an arse about this , just seeing if we've thought enough about it.

I actually think that if we did a fairly tight kit list and said its brits and germans only and went for 50 players we'd probably get it.. but can we risk that?

My alternative suggestion would be Italy as its a combined allied operation against the axis, plenty of scope for urban if we do the fighting around cassino or any of the small towns along the way.

My only reservation is that an Arnhem game thats includes americans at arnhem feels historically awful and a bit revisionist... covering the whole operation seems like a massive undertaking and would mean splitting the germans into two teams and effectivley running two events, one being uk vs axis the other being us breakthrough.

I mean its the battle im most passionate about , i'd hate us not to do it justice

One option is to throw history to the dogs and say 'what if' the drops were angloamerican and the 101st dropped with 1st airborne div

However.. on a lighter note....

I've been doing some reserch for the airborne kit list and other than not being able to find helmets cheap youcan do denison and 49 pat trousers for 60 quid... (ish) so I think we could feasbaly ask people to kit out.

I think 'arnhem' is such distinctive battle and everyone knows it -

I actually think that if we did a fairly tight kit list and said its brits and germans only and went for 50 players we'd probably get it.. but can we risk that?

No don't give up , I reckon post the game for 25 Brits and 25 Germans and see if you get the bookings. If after a month it's not happening widen it up to septics as well ( bearing in mind Steve might want to play!)

Warren's Denison/ off ebay -

I agree with you Guy

I only ask all this cos i've been coming up with some bloody awesome games for the day and thought a lot of it out already.... but i cant find a way to include US troops sensibly and rationaly without a 'relief force' excuse which means a few things.

1) its historical nonsense as UK troops were the relief and US forces held the 'carpet' for them to race up

2) the poor us players would spent the whole day attacking german spositions and not really get any defence done.

3) we'd split the german force.

I think we shoudl test the water for a UK airborne vs Axis game

we can incude btw Commandoes as the Dutch commandoes were present.

the inter allied commando brigade were dropped with theuk airborne forces.

Saving Private Ryan, damn should have guessed!

As far as I know we were doing Arnhem 'cos you and Yith wanted to, nowt to do with me! And you can be as grouchy as you like - this game is your two's call. As I say, I'm not fussed on what the package is.

So, alternative scenario for the 22nd April then. Push for more Brits for this event though and aim for a good build up during the year and then do a more pukka Arnhem game on or about 21st September?

Hehe, Yith and whistles! We used whistles on the Vietnam game the other day (worked a treat BTW) and I think Rich was a bit peeved his beloved whistle was at home tied to his battledress!

1) its historical nonsense as UK troops were the relief and US forces held the 'carpet' for them to race up

2) the poor us players would spent the whole day attacking german spositions and not really get any defence done.

3) we'd split the german force.

I'd try to keep it reasonably "in sense" historically . To me Arnhem says outnumbered Brit Paras grimly holding on and getting wiped out. It's a meat grinder type of game .
You need ot be carefull you don't end up with a game where the Germans get surrounded by Yanks and Brits , which might be fun but would be historical bollox, and I reckon the players wouldn't dig it.
A lot of the Bulge game was aimed at trying to provide cues and a feel of the actual battle/ legend . Some of it was a bit naff, but if players had seen the film they'd recognise some of the ideas coming through ( Skorzenies commandos being a case in point)

Although the game was not loaded it ended up like the real battle , Germans had a good assault and then got stalled . Resupplies failed and the Germans retreated , all through the efforts of the players without us rigging the game . It would be nice to see Arnhem have a similar game line to reality if possible, although it will take some thinking about .
I also think you've also got less room for subplots.

I'd like to think the Arnhem or MG game would be equally as recognisable ,& still think you need a fecking bridge. though ( hahahaha we could call it "a prop to far" )

So, alternative scenario for the 22nd April then. Push for more Brits for this event though and aim for a good build up during the year and then do a more pukka Arnhem game on or about 21st September?

Not a bad idea , worth considering .

We used whistles on the Vietnam game the other day

Was it snowing in Nam last Sunday? , I did think of you all in the gales !

A convincing Arnhem game thats feels like the battle at PU is emminently doable.

The question is only this:

In three months can we sign up 20+ uk airborne or commando players.

So far we could probably count on:
Myself
guy
yith
gliderrider
and the guy who played a commando at bulge

so thats 25 per cent there.... 30 germans and were laughing.

Not trying to hit you with negative waves guys i just like to look at the possible challenges.. iceberg spotting if you will.

I thin the decide is what Rich think of PU on the 21st.

BTW shall we try and get some more staged pics done on that day guys so we can get some arnhem publicity shots so if we go for it we can have some pics for the promo material?

Kermits planning on coming to take some pics for AI and reckons he may be able to borrow a pukka denison for yith.

Hate to piss on bonfire , but the guy with Yith wearing airborne was wearing my airborne smock -1 para !!

Sort the date and the venue , open a booking thread review in mid march, gotta be.

Plus on reflection think it might be a bit late to change from doing Arnhem considering what we've already said

PPS - What about Steve - he's "US" as well as one of "us" !